COMMISSIONING CONTEMPORARY ART
《當代藝術委託指南》


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A: You were a curator in the past, why are you doing law now?

D: I like the field of laws and art, I find things about ownership of art very interesting, so I did bits and parts about who owns the artwork, dealing things about what are these artworks, is it authentic, what is the taxes about it, about attribution, in a way, going law about arts, big questions about art, who owns the artwork, what is the artwork, what is authentic artwork, who could copy it, who has the right to copy the artwork, how is the art work sold, these kinds of questions, and then cultural property questions, to arise community to stop something, to get it back if the you think this subject is reflective to your community. They are very interesting questions.

A:你原來是策展人,為什麼你現在做法律了呢?

D:我喜歡法律和藝術,我覺得藝術所有權的相關問題非常有趣所以我做了些關於誰擁有藝術作品,這些藝術品是什麼,是否是真品,還有藝術品的務問題,歸屬問題,從某種程度上來,就是藝術的相關法律,藝術的一些重要問題,誰擁有藝術作品的所有權,什麼是藝術作品,什麼是真品,誰可以複製,誰有權利複製藝術作品,藝術品如何銷售,諸如此類的問題,然後就是文化權的問題,引起社群的阻撓,或者重拾權等等, 這些都是非常有意思的問題。

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A: How’s the change from curator to lawyer?

D: It is a little strange. I think they got points in common, because loyal classifications and definitions, I mean, in exhibitions and art history, they are also typologies, structures. They are very different as well. Law is of more senses about logic, even it’s about value judgment, and it’s also using logic in a lot of ways. Whereas in the field of art, this logic, too bit reach uncertain conclusion, art is a paradox, the point that Sol LeWitt makes in his statement when he talked about art is mystics, he talked about art become irrational, they push rationality into irrationality. In that sense, law can’t do that ultimately. It places on interpretation but there has to be rules, where rules in art game are about breaking the rules, which why art is exciting. It is fun to look at art with law. It is interesting.

A:從策展人的角色變成律師有什麼特別感受嗎?

D:是有點奇怪,我覺得其實兩者有共通點,因為從分類和定義上說,在展覽和藝術歷史中,兩者都是類型學,結構學。當然它們也是很不同的。法律更多是邏輯,甚至是價評判,而且法律在許多方式上運用邏輯學。而在藝術領域,這種邏輯太少了,所以導致的是不確定的結論,藝術是個悖論,索爾・萊維特( Sol LeWitt )在他的聲明中提到了這個觀點,他說到藝術是神秘的,藝術不理性,藝術將理性推到了非理性。從這個意義上說,法律最終還是不能做到這一點。法律關乎解釋,但是還是有規則的,而藝術的規則就是打破規則,這也是為什麼藝術令人如此激動。從法律的角度來看藝術是非常有趣的。

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A: Are you familiar with contemporary art in China?

D: Yes, but I don’t know a lot about it. I have an early work of Huang Yong Ping, he was one of my favorite artists, and he did the one of the best pieces I love, which is in Magiciens de la Terre. He put the text of Confucius and western philosophy together into the washing machine, and took it out. This is the first Chinese contemporary art I’ve ever seen. And it was amazing. This is great work, this is genius work, and I met Huang Yong Ping in Paris long time ago. Cai Guoqiang is amazing as well. He gave me a little drawing and it’s really beautiful. I worked with him in Taipei, Taipei Biennial in 1999, before I became a lawyer.

I am still a curator now, I curate shows. I think contemporary art now is interdisciplinary, so it’s very interesting when you come to art from discipline outside of art. You find artists working in between spaces, so artists I work with are conceptual, but also work in the field between law and art. So I curate shows about using contract to make a piece of art, and reflecting conditions of arts. This is ongoing project which I did called Offer & Exchange, we did six projects so far. And then I also do projects with Superflex, I am organising a big one at the Jumex Collection, Mexico City this year, which is an amazing collection. We are doing this big project about intellectual property laws and copyrights. So I get into an area I feel law and art is very interesting.

I think conceptual art very links to law somehow. Conceptual art also plays with laws, documents, or the contracts, and certificates, so it is very legal aesthetic. So for me it’s very interesting, I love conceptual art, there is a big connection between conceptual art and law I think. Playing with logic, playing statics with laws, and then also legal moment in art. Because certificates, all these things are the rules which has values, as meaning, so that artist starts to use these elements as the work, so the certificate becomes a work, or the contract becomes the work, or co-links to the work.

A:你熟悉中國的當代藝術嗎?

D:知道,但並不多。我有一件黃永的早期作品,他也是我最喜歡的藝術家之一,他有件作品是我最愛的幾件作品之一,就是在《地球村的魔術師(Magiciens de la Terre)》展覽上的那件。他把孔子和西方哲學的文本一起放入洗衣機,然後再拿出來。這是我所見到的第一件中國當代藝術作品,非常不錯。這是一件偉大的作品,也是一件天才作品,我在很久以前在巴黎見過黃永。蔡國強也同樣了不起。他給過我一小幅繪畫,很美的繪畫。在我成為律師之前,在1999年的台北雙年展,我和他一起工作過。

我現在仍是一名策展人,策劃展覽等等。我覺得當代藝術是跨學科的,所以如果從藝術外的領域來到看藝術是相當有趣的。你會發現藝術家是超越空間限制的,所以與我一起工作的藝術家都是觀念藝術為主,或者結合法律和藝術來進行創作。所以我策劃的展覽是用合同來創作成為一件藝術作品,反映藝術的狀態。這是一個還在進行中的項目,我稱它為《提供&交換(Offer & Exchange)》,我們目前已經完成了六件作品。我還與Superflex合作項目,今年我正在為墨西哥城的珠邁克斯收藏(Jumex Collection)組織一個大項目,主要關於知識產權法和版權。所以我覺得現在做的事情能發掘更多藝術和法律的趣味。我覺得觀念藝術在某種程度上與法律是相連的。

觀念藝術也同樣與法律、文件、或者合同,亦或證書相聯繫,所以它有種法律式的美感。因此我愛觀念藝術,我覺得概念藝術和法律有很大的聯繫,很有趣。和邏輯玩遊戲,還有與藝術中的法律時刻遊戲。因為證書等等都有了藝術價和意義,也就是說,藝術家將這些元素變成一件作品,證書就成了作品,或者合同成了作品,或者與藝術作品連在一起而成為一件作品。


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