與Sprüth Magers畫廊總監 安德烈亞斯·蓋勒的對談

ART.ZIP: Is the Gallery a bit focused on photographic works?

AG: Looking at the artists presented by the Gallery, a lot of them, not 50%, but many, use photography as medium, but very few artists would consider themselves as photographers. More forward photographers, like Philip-Lorca Dicorcia, create the picture with a camera, just like a painter creates a picture with brush and colour. They won’t consider themselves as photographers. They create pictures by using camera as a
tool, for example, Thomas Demand, he fully depends on the camera, but he’s a sculptor. He creates an object with copper and paper, and then takes a picture as an ultimate result. He knows everything about photography, how to handle a camera, but it is not the main issue. The camera only transcends his thinking and practice; he’s really coming form another point. Another artist like Andreas Gursky, he is more educated in photography, but he crossed the boundaries and used photography to create something new. He introduced a gate to photography that almost unseen before. He composes images with camera using painterly approach, to create a super image. He creates over natural images, you could see from the pictures that from different points, one photograph looking up, one looking to centre, one looking down. He creates pictures that beyond camera and our own eyes, it’s a different way
of seeing, and that’s why he stands
out from others. Another artist in our programme—Cindy Sherman—uses camera in a different approach, it’s more like a conceptual idea. She handled the camera to take her portrait, but more importantly, she is trying to generate female image representation, how female and woman look in Hollywood movies, or in her untitled series, how rich women present themselves in a portrait. She is trying to recreate the images, so she is using another different approach to work with camera. In all, there are a lot of artists using camera to create their work, but the Gallery does not focus on photography.

ART.ZIP: 畫廊的作品會不會偏向攝影為主?

AG: 畫廊代理的許多藝術家都用攝影作為媒介,但是很少一部分 會把自己看作是攝影師。更多前衛攝影師,像菲利普·洛卡·迪可西 爾(PHILIP-LORCA DICORCIA),運用相機創作圖像,就像畫家用 畫筆和顏料創作圖像一樣。他們不認為自己是攝影師,他們只是 把相機當作一種工具。譬如湯姆斯·迪曼(THOMAS DEMAND),和 完全依靠相機,但其實他是雕塑家,他通常用銅和紙來創作,然 後用相機把作品拍下來作為最後成品。他知道如何使用相機,但 是技術並不是他的關注點。相機只是傳達他思想和實踐的一個工 具。另外一些藝術家,像安德瑞思·古斯奇(ANDREAS GURSKY),他 接受過更多關於攝影的教育,但是他拓展了攝影的領域,運用攝 影來呈現之前從未被看見的景觀。他利用相機來畫圖,創作一幅 幅超級圖像,超自然景觀,你可以看到圖片由多個角度進行拍攝 和觀看。有些朝上,有些朝中心,有些朝下,他創作的圖像是相機 和我們肉眼無法一次看清楚的,他創建了一套獨特的觀看方式, 那也是為什麼他能出眾的原因。我們還有另外一位藝術家,辛迪· 雪兒曼(CINDY SHERMAN)則是從另一個方面運用相機,更接近 抽象概念一些。她用相機來拍攝肖像,但更重要的是她用相機來 生產女性形象表徵,在好萊塢電影裡女性形象,或者她的無題系 列裡,富家女人是如何在肖像裡表現自己的。雪兒曼嘗試用相機 重現女性形象。總的來說,畫廊很多藝術家相機來創作,但我們並 不專注在攝影作品上。


ART.ZIP: In an art market as young as that in China, still many collectors find photography art suspicious.
To them, its nature as a form of art that can be massively produced and easily duplicated makes it inferior to traditional mediums, such as painting. Does the gallery, on the other hand, treat photography somehow differently? Are they managed or sold differently from other works that are still considered “unique”? Is it some sort of a trouble when it comes to young market, such as the Chinese market?

AG: First of all, the distribution of photography is very different; pictures from Getty Image, you can download them and then ultimately reproduce millions of times, but photographs shown in the gallery are handled in a different way. We will make sure there would be very limited prints, and this limitation makes artistic photography different from photography found on Getty Image. When you buy photography from a gallery, we would guarantee only certain amount of prints are available, not more than these. By having the certificate you will get the one photograph produced and marketed, this is the same issue with painting. If the painter is talented he can reproduce the same painting, but it is always different. By the way of introducing limited edition, photography could compete with the production of painting. It took European audience a long long time to appreciate photography as a serious art form, and to collect it. As early as 1990s, when photography had this massive boom, people felt a little uncomfortable about it. Then they found photography in museums and galleries and people started to realize it as an art form just the same
as painting and sculpture. Yet commercial photography has other ways of making and ways of handling. In Germany and other European countries they have very strong copyright protection, China has a different idea
of what the original can be, what the copied can be, maybe copied is
like a new original, they have different understandings about copyright.
In all, photography is a good for young collectors to start collecting, because it’s cheaper, of lower price and more accessible. When looking at a painting, one needs to think, there may be a barrier that ‘I don’t know much about painting, sculpture and etc.’ However when people look at a photograph, everybody think they are experts, they think they understand it immediately, which is nice in a way people have the same ease with other medium of art. In photography they feel more at home, so it became a perfect art form for people to collect, before moving on to collect other things.

ART.ZIP: 像中國這樣年輕的藝術市場,很多藏家對攝影藝術作品 持懷疑的態度。對他們來,攝影能被大量生和復制,似乎比傳 統媒介,如繪畫,要低一級。你們畫廊是怎麼操作攝影作品的呢? 他們的獨特性生什麼樣的變化嗎?在售賣藝術品時會遇到怎 樣的問題呢?

AG: 首先,攝影作品的分發途徑不一樣。從GETTY IMAGE下載的 照片可以被複製上百萬次,但畫廊操作攝影作品則是另外一套方 式。我們會確保照片只有限定數量的,而這種限定性就使攝影作 品與GETTY上的照片不一樣。我們保證只有限定數量被製作和出 售,一張都不會多。我們還會提供證書,所以你買的攝影作品是唯 一被製作和流通於市場的,這與繪畫作品是一樣的。如果畫家有 能力也可以複製相同的作品,但每張其實都是不一樣的。所以限 量生產照片和繪畫作品的生產是一樣有競爭力的。歐洲的觀眾也用了好長好長一段時間才把攝影當作嚴肅的 藝術形式來欣賞和收藏。早到20世界90年代, 攝影的大量生產讓人們覺得很不適應,直到 在各大博物館和畫廊看到以後才開始意識到 攝影作為一種藝術形式而存在,就像繪畫和 雕塑一樣。而商業攝影則是用另外一套方式 來操作的。在德國,或者其他歐洲國家都有很 強的版權保護法,中國可能有另外一套關於 什麼是原創,什麼是盜版的看法,或者複製的 就是一個新的原創,反正中國有自己對版權的 一個理解。總的來說,攝影是年輕藏家入門的 最好選擇,因為價格相對便宜而且更容易接 觸到。觀看畫作的時候人們還可能會覺得有 障礙,覺得自己不懂怎麼看畫;但是人們看照 片的時候都覺得自己是專家,他們認為自己很 快就能看懂,從這方面來說是好的,讓人們更 自在地欣賞其他藝術媒介。攝影對人們來說更 自在一些,所以它是很好的藝術收藏形式,然 後慢慢地再去收藏別的藝術品。

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