ROCK ‘N ROLL INTERVIEW WITH MARK FISHER
石破天驚 專訪馬克 • 費希


ART.ZIP: WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE HANSHOW PROJECT AND THE ENVIRONMENT?

MARK:I don’t think it matters. I don’t think you want every single building in a city to tell a story. You just want selected important buildings in a city to tell a story, the rest of the city becomes the background. That’s important, otherwise you get overloaded and nobody understands what is going on, for example a block of apartments, you don’t need the block of apartments to tell you a story, about being apartments or a hotel to tell you a story. I believe, about the Chinese, I mean what can say I know about the Chinese, I can’t say anything that I know about the Chinese. Although I have spent a lot of time in China, talked to many Chinese, and I hope I have good Chinese friends. There is something about the Chinese approach which I think comes from your ideogram alphabet. Your approach to understand the world is symbolic as a culture, you want to know why things are the way they are all the time. I think because you would think, but of course we wanna know why, but you could have the same conversation in America and nobody would ask you why, that is my point. The point is Chinese will always ask you why, be- cause you want to know the reason why the thing looks the way it is, you are not an abstract culture in that way. I mean you have a highly abstract alphabet in that, and the ideograms are so developed from how they were created, and that they are very very abstract but with explanation, you can be told exactly why the thing is like this, that this is the house, this is the man, this is the tree, this is the river and that this is that symbol, because this is the story behind it. That is the world that you are totally brought up in as a Chinese person when you live in that language and it affects the way you think and the way you understand the world, and it makes you different from us, you must find this when you try to translate.

The cultural intellectual approach here to things is absolutely different. To me, this is one of the most interesting things about going to China and work- ing in China is understanding this and learning about it and trying to work with it in a positive way, because I think it is really interesting and I think this is really where this conversation about symbolism and legibility comes from. I think this difference between East and West is profound and it leads to a huge amount of misunderstanding at every level between our cultures, which is stupid. Because I think the Chinese is so patient with the West and the West is so impatient and really doesn’t un- derstand that the Chinese people. When you are in a conversation with a Chinese person, they are processing your words in a totally different way to the way in which you are saying to them, and because they are speaking back to you in English. They are processing their thoughts in a totally dif- ferent framework to talk to you. As a Westerner, and you receive it as a Westerner. You think, oh this is a Western person talking to me, but it’s not, and so this whole thing about symbolism is so important in the visual arts like architecture, show design and everything else it’s really the base of it. So that is something that I hope I understand in a small way and it’s been the thing that has most informed my approach to working in China as a designer and an architect.

ART.ZIP:您怎樣看漢秀劇場與周圍環境的關係?

MARK:我覺得沒有什麼關係,並不是每一個獨立建築都要講述一個故事。我們只是需要選擇一些重要的建築讓其有敘事 性,其他的建築可以作為背景。這是很重要的,否則信息就會 過載,你不需要在公寓建築設計上也像講述故事一樣。對於中 國我並不能說非常瞭解,雖然我已經花了很多時間在中國與 很多中國人交談。關於中國的思維方式,我認為有一些是來自 於漢字字母的結構。作為一種文化,你想知道為什麼事情會 是這樣,語言的方法是認識世界的方式。相同的談話在美國, 就沒人會問你為什麼,中國始終問你為什麼,因為你希望知道原因,這是我的觀點。你們有一個高度抽象的字母,表意的文字,這是房子,這是人,這是樹,這是河,這是符號,因為這是它背後的故事。作為一個中國人生活在這種語言中,它會影響你的思維方式和認識世界的方式,它使你們與我們的世界不同,你必須找到並嘗試着作出闡釋。

A.Dalian Wanda Group Wuhan Movie Theme Park

這裡的文化對我來說是完全不同的,到中國工作也是希望去瞭 解和理解這種文化,並試圖以積極的方式來用它工作。我認為 東方和西方之間對於象徵意義與可讀性的差別是深刻的,它導 致了大量的誤解,在每個層度之間的文化,誤解是愚蠢的。因 為我覺得中國對於西方是充滿了耐心,而西方對於東方常是不 耐煩的,他們真的不明白中國人。在西方語言的對話中,西方 人總是用自己的語言習慣去理解中國人的話,而中國人卻會試 圖用西方人的語言習慣去理解西方人。但這是不對的,所以在 視覺藝術上的溝通很重要,無論建築,設計或其他視覺藝術都 是這種視覺語言的基礎。所以我希望我能從小的地方開始理 解,這也是我去中國做設計師和建築師的原因。


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